HOW TO SELECT PATTERN SIZE FOR TOPS
BY PATI PALMER
This blog reviews the history of bust measurement guidelines within the patternmaking industry and concludes with validation of the widely used Palmer/Pletsch Tissue-Fitting Method for selecting the right size pattern for tops.
- The Palmer/Pletsch Tissue-Fitting Method
- History of Measuring the Bust
- Pattern Companies’ Version of High Bust
- What About Bra Cup Sizes?
- Field Test: How to Measure High Bust
- Conclusion: The Palmer/Pletsch High Bust Measurement Works!
THE PALMER/PLETSCH TISSUE-FITTING METHOD
The images above are from The Palmer/Pletsch Complete Guide to Fitting by Pati Palmer and Marta Alto, which is the best resource for our tissue-fitting methods.
HISTORY OF MEASURING THE BUST
THE PALMER/PLETSCH METHOD
In the 1970s while teaching together Marta Alto and I measured the full bust for pattern size, following the pattern companies’ instructions. However, unless people matched the body shape the patterns were based on, tops would fit around the bust, but they were often too big in the neck, chest, and shoulder area which are more difficult to grade down to fit. We started measuring what we named the high bust. It excluded the full bust, but the angle from back to front may have been enough to simulate the B bra cup that patterns are made for. Measure the high bust and find your size using the BUST LINE on the measurement chart. We found no need for a separate chart for high bust. You will learn why as you read the entire blog
HIGH BUST MEASUREMENT LOCATION
We measured below the shoulder blades in the back and above the full bust in the front. It was a snug measurement, often called a skin measurement. If between sizes we used the smaller size. That is because the ease in patterns would generally cover you if you measured a little above a size.
For example, you measure 35” in the high bust. On the bust line on the measurement chart, that is half way between a size 12 and 14. Usually a size 12 will work.
However, if your high bust measures right on a size we called it “on the fence.” We told students they could either use that size or use the smaller size depending on style and personal preference.
For example, if the high bust measured exactly 34 they might choose the 12 if the design was fitted or drop down to a size 10 if it was oversized
After years of teaching and using this method successfully McCall’s agreed with us that the high bust works.
However, they couldn’t promote our method without education. We’d need to make sure a full-busted person would know how to alter or they’d end up with a blouse that couldn’t be buttoned. “GOOD POINT,” we said.
In 2015, McCall’s asked us to create an educational page for their catalog alerting the consumer that using the high bust measurement for size gives a better fit in the chest, neck, and shoulder area but may require a full bust alteration.
Then, after designing for McCall’s for 40 years from 1980 to 2020, we were asked to design for Butterick. There are still Palmer/Pletsch patterns in McCall’s.
In 2021, when our first Butterick Palmer/Pletsch patterns debuted, Butterick created a similar “How to Buy the Right Size Pattern” page for the Butterick catalog. They added another page in the catalog on how to use the “Learn to Fit Sheath Dress” pattern Butterick B6849 featuring the Palmer/Pletsch Tissue-Fitting Method. Altering a fitted pattern to your body creates a road map for the most fitted designs. We use it in our 4-Day Fit Workshops.
Check out our blog THE CLASSIC SHEATH DRESS IS FIT TOOL.
AN AHA MOMENT! CO-AUTHOR MARTA SAID, “WOW, WE WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!”
After fitting women for OVER 25 years, we were doing research for our first fit book, Fit for Real People, published in 1998. Betty Williams, a theatrical costumer, proposed an exhibition at the Fashion Institute of Technology’s Museum at FIT called “Dreams on Paper, Home Sewing in America.” Our 1980s blazer for McCall’s was included. She invited us to visit her vintage pattern collection in her NYC studio. Marta and I lost ourselves for an entire day and what we learned about early pattern sizing is in chapter 2 of our fit books.
We found pamphlets from the 1870s written by pattern company founders Ebenezer Butterick and James McCall. They showed the same method of measuring we used and called high bust measurement, but they called it the bust measurement.
WHY DID THEY CALL WHERE THEY WERE MEASURING THE BUST?
In the 1870s article where Ebeneezer and James called their measurement the bust, they also said “For men and boys’ shirts, take the breast measurement.” Apparently, there was a difference. Maybe they used the word bust for women to describe the location of their measurement likening it to a bust sculpture in art that often stopped just above the bust.
Today bust is more commonly used as another term for breast. When Marta and I named the measurement location high bust, we simply described where we took it. When asked why the term bust instead of breast is now used on measurement charts, our standard answer is that James and Ebenezer died!
A LITTLE FUN PERSONAL STORY
In 1975 when Susan Pletsch and I were writing our second book, Mother Pletsch’s Painless Sewing, I wanted to add a chapter on fitting. Susan said no! This is a book about painless sewing. She finally challenged me, saying, “If you can write a chapter I can read without falling asleep, then OK.” Mission accomplished!
NOTE: Originally we took two measurements, full and high bust. But because the high bust always worked best we dropped the other one.
THE PATTERN COMPANIES’ VERSION OF HIGH BUST
We were never sure how the CHEST measurement that used to be on pattern company misses’ size charts was used. It didn’t matter until it was re-named HIGH BUST in 2021. It was measured differently than the way Palmer/Pletsch taught. Rather than be negative or skeptical we chose to investigate further. Step ONE, learn about the idea. The best place to start is by reading the measurement chart instructions.
THESE ARE THE INSTRUCTIONS PROVIDED BY THE PATTERN COMPANIES:
Misses’ patterns are made for a B cup with 2” (5cm) difference between bust and high bust measurement for each size.
- Measure bust around the fullest part of the bust and straight across the back.
- Measure the high bust directly under the arms, straight across the back and above the bust.
- If you have more than 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement. (See chart below.)
If bust measures 40” and high bust measures 36, a 4” difference, use high bust size 16.
If bust measures 40” and high bust measures 38, that’s only a 2” difference, use size 18.
The complete charts can be seen at https://simplicity.com/size-charts/
HOW WE ARE DIFFERENT
The Palmer/Pletsch technique doesn’t need a separate measurement chart for high bust. We instead compare it to the bust line on the measurement chart, as explained in HISTORY OF MEASURING THE BUST.
While the pattern company measurement diagram doesn’t show a side view of how to measure, their description is different from Palmer/Pletsch. .
Further down in this blog I’ll describe how we tested both measurement positions on students in our workshops and give you our conclusions.
WHAT ABOUT BRA CUP SIZES?
A good rule of thumb is the bigger the body bump the more length and width it needs as well as deeper darts.
When a pattern is altered for larger cup size, you will have more width and length at the front to go over the larger bump and the deeper darts will make the bust and armhole fit better.
In the Painless Sewing book we said to spread the width ½” for a C cup, ¾” for a D cup and 1 ½” for a DD cup. We don’t do that anymore.
Cup size in the bra industry:
The B cup is when the bust is 2” greater than the band. C cup is when the bust is 3” greater. D cup is when the bust is 4” greater. (Manufacturers vary because of lack of enforced standards. They used to use a chest measurement above the bust, but now most use the band measurement below the bust.)
Cup size in the pattern industry:
Misses patterns are made for a B bra cup with 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust measurement.
Women’s patterns are made for a C cup with 1” (2.5cm) difference between bust and high bust measurement. https://simplicity.com/size-charts/
The REAL question is, “Do we go by the bra cup size the person is wearing when we are tissue-fitting?” NO!
Our goal is to get a good fit “in spite of” the bra cup size one is wearing. If you take our fit workshop, we suggest getting fitted for a bra and wearing the same bra each day. Yes, it can make a difference!
BRA CUP SIZE CAN BE DECEIVING.
Here is another reason that we don’t take bra cup size too seriously.
Under the purple highlight are cups that are all the same volume. You might not know this unless you are a bra manufacturer.
ANOTHER VARIABLE – RIB CAGE
Some people are wearting a B-cup bra size, but they have a full rib cage, so they may need to do a full bust alteration on a pattern.
We prefer to start by altering the B front to see how much width is needed for that design. You’ll get it right the first time because we measure from the pattern center front to your center front. Patterns with fronts for C, D, and DD cup sizes may or may not work out. But they may be worth a try.
FIT IS AN ART!
There are exceptions to this process for selecting your best size.
FOR EXAMPLE: People with a broad back may need to go down a size for a better fit through the chest and shoulders and do a broad back alteration.
A CLUE TO HAVING A BROAD BACK IS ROUNDNESS
Extra length at the center back is often needed just at the top (high round back alteration). You will see this when tissue-fitting.
If a person is very round, we usually add extra length at the shoulder blades (low round back alteration). When both are done, a center back seam is added when the center back is on the fold. The seam will curve the same as the body curves.
The illustrations above are from The Palmer/Pletsch Compete Guide to Fitting by Marta Alto and Pati Palmer. The book includes many alterations for many garment styles.
FIELD TESTING: HOW TO MEASURE HIGH BUST
Helen Bartley and I decided to test the pattern companies’ and Palmer/Pletsch’s versions of measuring the high bust for size.
We developed a PATTERN SIZE FOR TOPS WORKSHEET for gathering information from students during several sewing workshops in Portland, Oregon.
The question? Which measurement is most accurate for pattern size?
We measured the high bust two ways and then the full bust.
The middle “Chest” measurement on our worksheet is what the pattern companies now call High Bust. They have added High Bust to their measurement charts. We do not use that chart.
We recorded the measurements for each student and the resulting size for each.
We added photos of where we measured each student.
Then we wrote the size they use to sew tops.
NOTE: When between sizes we use the smaller size. When right on a size you can use that size or the smaller size depending on the ease in the design.
Pattern company instructions: If you have more than 2½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement.
We measured 21 students. Here is a sampling of the worksheets.
PALMER/ PLETSCH HIGH BUST– Using the bust line on the chart, 37¼” is a size 14 .
CHEST – Her chest (now called high bust on the pattern company chart) measures 38”, which on the high bust chart is an 18. It is not more than 2 ½” larger than bust.
FULL BUST – Her full bust is a size 18.
THE SIZE SHE USES FOR TOPS – 14.
Pattern company instructions: If you have more than 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement.
PALMER/ PLETSCH HIGH BUST– Using the bust line on the chart, 41” is a size 18.
CHEST – Her chest (now called high bust on the pattern company chart) measures 42”, which on the high bust chart is a 22.
FULL BUST – Her full bust is 46 5/8” —a size 24.
THE SIZE SHE USES FOR TOPS – 18.
Pattern company instructions: If you have more than 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement.
PALMER/ PLETSCH HIGH BUST– Using the bust line on the chart, 33 ¾” is a size 10.
CHEST – Her chest (now called high bust on the pattern company chart) measures 34”, which on the high bust chart is a 14.
FULL BUST – Her full bust is 36 ¾”—a size 14.
THE SIZE SHE USES FOR TOPS – 12 for fitted tops and a 10 for looser tops.
Pattern company instructions: If you have more than 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement.
PALMER/ PLETSCH HIGH BUST– Using the bust line on the chart, 40” is a size 16.
CHEST – Her chest (now called high bust on the pattern company chart) measures 41”, which on the high bust chart is a 20. (3” difference.)
FULL BUST – Her full bust is 44”—a size 22.
THE SIZE SHE USES FOR TOPS – 16 with a broad back alteration.
Pattern company instructions: If you have more than 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement.
PALMER/ PLETSCH HIGH BUST– Using the bust line on the chart, 32 ¾” is a size 10.
CHEST – Her chest (now called high bust on the pattern company chart) measures 34 ¼”, which on the high bust chart is a 14. But there is less than 2 ½” between high bust and bust so use the bust for size— a 12 on the bust chart.
FULL BUST – Her full bust is 35” —a size 12.
THE SIZE SHE USES – 10 unless very fitted then a size 12 for comfort.
Pattern company instructions: If you have more than 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement.
CONCLUSION: THE PALMER/PLETSCH HIGH BUST MEASUREMENT WORKS!
We developed the worksheet for gathering information from Palmer/Pletsch workshop students and recorded results for two methods of measuring the high bust. We also measured the full bust, another way used to select size, for comparison.
We found the new pattern company HIGH BUST measurement (formerly CHEST) was difficult to measure directly under the arms, straight across the back, and above the bust. Underarms were too low on most students, and the measurement often included shoulder blades, adding width.
For both types of high bust measurements, the area above the breast changes depending on where women have fluff and by the style of the bra worn. There are no standard measurements for this area which is why there is no Palmer/Pletsch high bust chart.
Also, most people don’t have a standard 2” difference between full and high bust. It is a bra industry tool. (See BRA CUP SIZE.)
A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF EACH METHOD
PALMER/PLETSCH METHOD:
Pati Palmer and Marta Alto measured for pattern size calling it HIGH BUST beginning in the 1970s. They used that measurement to find size using the bust line on the measurement chart.
They knew it worked but not why. They thought that maybe the angled measurement taken under the shoulder blades in the back and above the bust in the front may simulate a B-cup size while eliminating the actual bust bump.
25 years later they learned that James McCall and Ebenezer Butterick measured the same way, but called it the BUST measurement
PATTERN COMPANIES’ METHOD:
In 2021 the CHEST measurement on pattern company measurement charts was re-named HIGH BUST. Their instructions: Measure the high bust directly under the arms, straight across the back, and above the bust. Refer to the High Bust chart for size.
If you have more than 2 ½” (6.3 cm) difference between bust and high bust, select your pattern size by high bust measurement on the chart.
FINAL WORDS
When the pattern companies changed the CHEST to HIGH BUST, we started getting questions because it was different from what we had been teaching and using in all of our educational materials as well as in our McCall’s and Butterick patterns for nearly 50 years.
This led to confusion. Helen Bartley, author of Fit and Sew Custom Jeans and head of Palmer/Pletsch Workshops at the Portland, Oregon, location, measured 21 people during three months of summer 2025 workshops. Since our students got the best fit using the Palmer/Pletsch method of measuring high bust and selecting size, is there something we could do?
We suggest the pattern companies change HIGH BUST back to CHEST on the measurement chart to eliminate confusion. Or maybe chest could be eliminated if it has no purpose in choosing misses’ sizes.
We are pleased that Butterick and McCall’s have included a special Palmer/Pletsch education page in their catalogs explaining how to choose size using the Palmer/Pletsch high bust measurement while educating that you may need to alter for a full bust. We hope they will also add it to their website.
Maybe James and Ebenezer would be proud to see their method of taking a “bust” measurement in their namesake catalogs, even though we call it high bust. In addition, we are showing how they measured. We added how to alter if you are full busted. Everything evolves!
For nearly 50 years of writing books and teaching sewing classes, seminars, and hands-on workshops, our students and teachers have been our laboratory in the search to make the process of fitting easier and more accurate. We appreciate their enthusiasm and help with this goal throughout the years!
Thank you for reading this blog and we can’t wait to read your comments.
Sincerely ,
PALMER/PETSCH FIT AND SEWING RESOURCES
Learning how to alter a pattern to fit your unique body is a crucial step in getting good fit. Learn more about the Palmer/Pletsch Tissue-Fitting Method. Subscribe to get emails.
The Fit workshops chart and descriptions PDF will help you decide which workshop best meets your needs. Look for it at the top of our workshops page, accessed by clicking the button above.
The link above also takes you to information about all of our workshops at sewing schools around the country as well as online Zoom webinars and workshops.
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This book is available on Amazon and from other locations.
A History of the Paper Pattern Industry
The author of this book, Joy Spanabel Emory, along with Whitney Blausen, worked on the 1997 exhibition at the Museum of FIT (part of the Fashion Institute of Technology) called Dreams on Paper, Home Sewing in America. We met them because a Palmer/Pletsch pattern was in the exhibit.
Betty Williams, a theatrical costumer for plays in New York City area and who had consulted on the exhibition, had cancer and was in the hospital. Joy and Whitney knew we were writing a fit book and arranged with Betty for Marta and me to spend time all by ourselves in her studio with its drawers full of vintage patterns. What an opportunity. Our main question was where did pattern sizing come from? We got many answers which are in Chapter 2, A History of Pattern Sizing in the Palmer/Pletsch Complete Guide to Fitting.
You may really enjoy reading this book. Betty Williams’ complete pattern archive now lives at the University of Rhode Island which also has a nearly complete collection of Palmer/Pletsch patterns.
Thanks for this post! I was one of the confused ones not understanding WHERE to measure the high bust and my shoulder area on my makes were too big! I think I’ve got it now!
Thank you for sharing. So glad this helped you. This post took us almost a year to put together, since we decided we needed to actually test our conclusion, so we are pleased for your response. Thank you!
Great article Pati! It makes the whole bust fitting method so easy to understand. I appreciate the photos showing the different women being measured and the end results. This really is the best pattern fitting method available for everyone who sews clothes!